Curse

xLeo · Mar 20, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

It's prolly around 95% (Against LS) : 5% (Supporting LS)

Abedeus · Mar 20, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I say that 90% want LS gone.

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

So.... you want several ridiculously expensive grind based titles and are ticked that they are expensive/take a long time to acomplish?

Max sweet tooth/drunkard/party animal are not for everybody. It is supposed to be ridiculous to get that and FoW armor. We are talking about stuff that matters to the "casual" gamer, having enough to buy skills, basic armor, and weapons. Not have 1337 titles that are designed to show off that you have money.

I dont really care how the casual gamer plays, and LS wasnt put in the game to affect casual players, it was put in to deter bots and failed at that.

I was a casual player for my first 6 or 8 months too. I only played the campaign, cared little about high end armors and rare skins, but after a casual gamer finishes the game and they want to keep playing it what do they do? Farming was a great option, and incredibly fun for a lot of people. Just because you and a minority of players dont enjoy it, why should it be ruined for those that do? The game has titles which require money, not only the consumable ones, but Legendary Skill hunter requires just under 300k spent into cap sigs. The fact that we cant actually make enough money to fund for these titles if we want too makes LS fail. When they introduced LS, they should have halved the cost of Cap sigs, Consumables and other items at merchants, and not added in things with ridiculous costs like Chaos Gloves after LS was implenented.

Anet basically expect us to play a game, where people that are interested in the high end items are no longer able to make the money to fund for those things. If they want stuff like Consumable based titles, 1k costs for cap sigs and skills, and expensive gloves in Gwen, it should be possible for EVERYONE to be able to make money for this if they choose to do so.

At the end of the day it is a choice. Removing LS WOULD NOT affect the casual gamer in anyway, as you can complete the game without 15k armor or 100k+ rare skin Items. And you get perfect weapons when you finish the games for free. Temoving LS would just make farming more enjoyable for those that choose to do it.

Stolen Souls · Mar 20, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lem

I disagree with this, lootscaling is a good thing and anyone who finds it hard to make money in the current system isn't trying hard enough.

I kinda agree with this. There seems to be a really thin line, between the gold not being accessable...and people just wanting to be lazy. :/

I really don't care to see 15k ectos and 100k + xxx golds again.

Gun Pierson · Mar 20, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Trading will be so much fun! I can't wait to see more of those 100k + x ecto 'bargains', with ecto back at 15k+. That's just what the market needs to be more accessible to casual players.

I don't care what happens but the real casual player is not interested in those vanity items or at least that's how I think it should be in theory. We're humans ofcourse and we want a lot.

I wonder, can a casual player in a short amount of time buy chaos gloves with LS? Can he buy them without LS? My answer would be 'no' in both cases.

The removal of LS would give the casual player more gold to buy the basic stuff and more importantly more drops for collector's items. So all in all I think the casual player would benfit more from the removal of lootscaling than it would hurt him at this point.

Stolen Souls · Mar 20, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

I wonder, can a casual player in a short amount of time buy chaos gloves with LS? Can he buy them without LS? My answer would be 'no' in both cases.

In a short amount of time, no. But they CAN get them. Why would a "casual" player be in a huge hurry, anyway? Just by saving, you CAN eventually get them. Hell, I did...

Eli Rela · Mar 20, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

we can estimate, unless you want to flip through all pages and count :-)

can a moderator insert a poll on top of this thread? or we have to create a new one?

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

I kinda agree with this. There seems to be a really thin line, between the gold not being accessable...and people just wanting to be lazy. :/

I really don't care to see 15k ectos and 100k + xxx golds again.

Lazy? Explain to me how it is possible to make profit from UW runs if you have to pay 1k for entry and only make 300g per run if I want to keep my ectos for myself.

Farming UW and FoW solo actually result in a loss of money, I also forget that that is where a lot of the money I make during the game gets spent into now.

Everytime I solo UW or Fow, I lose another 500-700 gold. Great game design. So how do we make money anymore?

Stolen Souls · Mar 20, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Lazy? Explain to me how it is possible to make profit from UW runs if you have to pay 1k for entry and only make 300g per run if I want to keep my ectos for myself.

The ectos ARE the profit, and the whole point of UW runs? hmm *ponder*

Farming UW NEVER caused me to lose money. Even with loot scaling, the 1k is made up for with the merch junk. Plus the ectos. Unless I just have good luck, and my experience is not typical. In which case, go me.

Lem · Mar 20, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Lazy? Explain to me how it is possible to make profit from UW runs if you have to pay 1k for entry and only make 300g per run if I want to keep my ectos for myself.

Farming UW and FoW solo actually result in a loss of money, I also forget that that is where a lot of the money I make during the game gets spent into now.

Everytime I solo UW or Fow, I lose another 500-700 gold. Great game design. So how do we make money anymore?

Just because you are keeping shards and ectos for youself doesn't mean you aren't making money. And you are getting things that you want that would otherwise cost you more money for less. Therefore your argument is mostly moot really.

Again we are focussing on a minority aspect of the overall picture here, LS is not just about solo runs of UW and FoW.

creelie · Mar 20, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

But because without LS you earn more money through normal play, it will balance it. While giving you easier access to the Fixed priced Items.

Actually that's not true. Drops in normal play are exactly the same as before LS. ONLY people who play in less-than-max groups for the area are affected.

Gun Pierson · Mar 20, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

In a short amount of time, no. But they CAN get them. Why would a "casual" player be in a huge hurry, anyway? Just by saving, you CAN eventually get them. Hell, I did...

Yes ofcourse but I wonder, in what mode will he gets them faster, with or without LS? If without LS, it's more interesting for 'the e-peen elite' that LS stays.

Stolen Souls · Mar 20, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Yes ofcourse but I wonder, in what mode will he gets them faster, with or without LS? If without LS, it's more interesting for 'the e-peen elite' that LS stays.

If you farm for the 75 ectos, it doesn't matter...as ecto drops are not affected by LS. You'd get them in exactly the same amount of time with or without LS.

If you farm the gold to buy the ectos...my guess is it would take around the same amout of time, maybe a bit shorter without LS. Without LS you make more gold, but the price of everything also goes up. But again, this doesn't apply to "casual" players...as casual players are not interested in hardcore farming.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

Actually that's not true. Drops in normal play are exactly the same as before LS. ONLY people who play in less-than-max groups for the area are affected.

You are forgetting the "IDS"

. No I'm not explaining that again. Scroll back a couple of pages of the explanation >.>

creelie · Mar 20, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Has IDS actually been statistically proven to exist? Link me to numbers or STFU.

ogre_jd · Mar 20, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The game has titles which require money, not only the consumable ones, but Legendary Skill hunter requires just under 300k spent into cap sigs.

A month's work, at most, to raise that much money, not counting any lucky finds. If you have a bit of financial discipline. Considerably less if you're the type who can put more than a couple of hours a day into playing.

And there's another reason to keep loot scaling in: it seems to be annoying the "the titles exist so I must have every single one no matter what" crowd.

romeus petrus · Mar 20, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

/signed

Some of us used to enjoy solo farming. Some farm areas require skill and attention to do. Loot scaling sucked the fun out of farming and lead many people to lose interest in the game.

I don't remeber the last time I solo farmed, prolly back before they put the DN in UW more than 2.5 years ago. It used to be fun and profitable. I think people who want to experience and benefit from solo farming should be given the chance to do so.

Lem · Mar 20, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

How did it suck the fun out of farming, the number of things not affected by loot scaling means you can still farm for golds etc. In fact I did some raptor farming this weekend with the st pats items, and I got tons of drops (not counting clovers and ales), the average was about 1 gold item per run (approx 30 kills a run) which isn't bad really, not to mention tons of dye, a load of tomes and more.

Eldin · Mar 20, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

The economy WAS in good condition before LS.

Everything was much more expensive (ectos and all), with some exceptions (I believe black dye used to be cheaper) BUT...

We already spoke about how Loot Scaling lessens the amount of drops you can get period. We can generally agree on that. In turn the total amount of money in the economy is less, yet prices of things do not decline in relation to it, they remain the same due to factors which avoid the money drop (bots and all).

If we kill LS, more stuff drops.

If more stuff drops, people get richer.

If people get richer, people can get more shiny armors and weapons.

-----

Also, solo farming was a lot more enjoyable back then. I remember Ettin farming as an example:

I'd run out of Beetletun w/ Storm Chaser, on the edge of my seat as the Tengu degen me as I pass by. I set my traps, pull the Ettins, and get ready.

I was a crappy trapper at the time and so the Ettins continued to fight - I'd dash back, fire at them, continue to fire arrows until they dropped, hit unguent, run around, put down more traps for his still-living buddy.

I'd enjoy this for some time, then I'd explore the area admiring the scenery as I ID'd my plentiful pauldrons and runes which actually were worth something back then.

Nowadays there is no leisure like this in farming.

Also this will NOT make it overly easy for people to get rich. Once again, there WAS still a line between rich and poor players pre-LS, there is no reason for that line not to return should we implement LS. Obviously if you are going to sit around and do nothing you won't make much money regardless of LS, and even with LS you STILL need to put some effort to make money - but you can make it faster than you can nowadays.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

Has IDS actually been statistically proven to exist? Link me to numbers or STFU.

Ah come on. Everybody (that plays pve long enough) knows that de drop rate increases if you kill them 1 by 1 instead of all at the same time. >.>